Rocky Marciano and Floyd Mayweather and the 120 Million Dollar Question
By Robert Brizel, Head Real Combat Media Boxing Correspondent
Is Floyd Mayweather Jr. the greatest professional boxer of all-time? Better even than Rocky Marciano? The late Angelo Dundee answered such challenge questions with “Hypothetical questions like that leave me cold. In their time, they were the best, and I respect that.”
According to Roger Mayweather, “Rocky ain’t never fight nobody.” No respect there.
According to Muhammad Ali, “Rocky hit you hard. He hit you so hard. Rocky was a very courageous fighter. Could I have beaten him? It would have been rough. I don’t take nothing away (from him). Marciano and I were good friends. I truly believe on my best day and on his best day, I probably would have beaten him. Probably not knocked him out. I truly think he (Rocky) was better than Joe Frazier. It would have been even. It’s just hard (to speculate). It’s up to the imagination. Rocky was not a great fighter scientifically, just a mauler brawler. You can’t teach no kids to fight like Marciano. He had his own style. He was courageous. I don’t know if I would have beaten him. He could have out pointed me, I could have out pointed him. He had his style, I had my style. I did a computer fight with him as an old man, and my arms were sore. In his heyday, he might have won, probably would. It’s just something for the imagination.”
Honestly, if you compare Rocky Marciano to Floyd Mayweather Jr., it’s a different class of fight, because Rocky went rounds. Fighters were different back in the day. They were built different. Their mind set was different. Rocky had the shortest reach of any heavyweight champion. To compensate, Rocky developed a style got low and tried to come inside from underneath to get in close on an opponent. The closer Rocky could get inside on an opponent, the more damage he could do with short arms. At long range, Rocky could not jab with the great jabbers. Rocky had to crowd and move in on his opponents, and that is how his fighting style developed. Rocky was the greatest of his time.
Let’s look at the facts the way they are. Floyd Mayweather Jr. is one of the greatest boxers ever. This is because what Floyd has accomplished in boxing, nobody else has ever accomplished, which is far more than Floyd’s many 12 round televised shows. In terms of the money earned, the attention brought to the sport of boxing, and the style of boxing, Floyd has never been beaten. In terms of money specifically, Floyd is the greatest ever. With gates of tens of millions of dollars, and still to come far more money than that, Floyd has pulled off something which no other boxer, trainer, manager, or promoter will ever do.
Rocky Marciano emerged as a television fighter back in the day, and paved the way for the boxers who followed. However, Rocky was being watched by a white audience, not a universal audience. The United States was too controversial back then. Rocky emerged as world heavyweight champion in the middle of the American Civil Rights movement. There was a lot of political goings on back in Rocky’s time. Rocky managed to steer clear of the political controversy of the time, but like it or not, his career was smack in the middle of it.As the late sports writer Red Smith noted about Rocky, “Fear was not in his vocabulary, and pain had no meaning.”
In terms of black fighters, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore all got a chance at Rocky’s title. However, they were all threatened, and their families were threatened, and both they and their families were threatened to be killed. Going back to the first world heavyweight champion who was black, ‘The Galveston Giant’, Jack Johnson, there was hate going around for black people. There were riots against those people who stood up for Jack Johnson. While Rocky denied mafia involvement during his career to the bitter end, when Archie Moore knocked down Rocky in the second round and Rocky got a standing eight count to recover from referee Harry Kessler when the rules stated there could be none, such incidents raised big questions.
When you put it all together, then and now, Floyd Mayweather, who is black, is one of the greatest fighters, ever as his influence is felt in a number of ways in boxing history, more so than Rocky’s legacy. Rocky Marciano’s legacy was that of a vicious savage puncher, which Floyd will never be. Armed with a lifetime contract, Marciano’s manager Al Weill pocketed at least 50% of Rocky’s earnings plus additional expenses, something Rocky was never able to control and reinforced Rocky Marciano’s desire to get out of boxing and not make a comeback. Floyd, on the other hand, has consistently kept his mega earnings. In later years, Rocky always only took cash and never checks for his speaking engagements, various businesses and business transactions, to prevent Al Weill from stealing a piece of what money Rocky had left. In the era before Don King, promoter Al Weill was the thief.
If you look at who Rocky fought, he did not fight anybody of note except Joe Louis, and Louis was old when Marciano fought him. If you look at boxing back then in the 1950’s, it was only just coming together as a television medium for sports fans to enjoy.
Some say Floyd Mayweather is boxing’s all-time ‘Superman’. Boxing experts agree Floyd Mayweather Jr. has achieved things no other fighter has done. Floyd, a welterweight, gets paid more than a heavyweight. Floyd is one of the greatest fighters ever, but for him to gain a legendary status, he still has to fight Manny Pacquiao. Win or lose to Pacquiao, Floyd is still going to be legendary. Fighting Pacquiao is what Floyd has to do to cement his legacy.
Strangely, who Floyd fought and how Floyd boxed seem to be most irrelevant in terms of evaluating his boxing career. The money Floyd brought in at the gate, and the attention to boxing which came with it, television, Pay-Per-View and ticket sales, seem to be his legacy.
Even if Floyd gets beaten by Manny Pacquiao, Keith Thurman or somebody, losing doesn’t change the facts. Floyd brought $$$ mega money into the sport of boxing, yet Floyd won’t be remembered as much of a public speaker. Rocky Marciano spoke at every boy’s and men’s club on his way to becoming the most famous public speaker boxing champion ever.
Rocky Marciano’s family is very concerned about the number 49. The Marciano family feels they waited too long to respond to the facts after the taunts of Rocky by Roger Mayweather. Let’s be honest. Floyd is going to break Marciano’s 49-0 record. Everybody breaks every record sometime, basketball, football, baseball. Home run records have been broken. The Guinness Book of World Records has its records broken all the time.Rocky Marciano’s 49-0 record is about to get broken. People break records. The critical point involving the Marciano family is, in terms of Rocky’s record as a heavyweight, apparently, Rocky’s record has and will always withstand the test of time in the heavyweight division. Even more extraordinary, Rocky Marciano accomplished his 49-0 feat with the body weight of a cruiserweight against full heavyweights, a testament to his power and courage.
The Marciano family has issues accepting Floyd Mayweather Jr. as the legend who will surpass Rocky Marciano. You cannot really compare Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Rocky Marciano. Floyd passed Rocky long ago in the financial sense. Rocky could never get promoters to put up money for his fights like Floyd does. Floyd changed boxing in his weight class by doing something no other fighter was able to do. It is that simple. Floyd is also a noteworthy boxing promoter, who has presented two different boxing shows in different locations at the same time as part of the same Pay-Per-View boxing show.
Rocky Marciano should only be compared to Rocky Balboa in the modern sense. Nobody has ever bothered to compare the significance of the two Rockys. The thing about it is, Rocky Balboa did a lot to publicize boxing, and Balboa was NOT a real boxer. If you say Rocky, people are going to think of Sylvester Stallone, and not Rocco Francis Marchegano. Marciano will always be known for the number 49 by boxing historians, but Rocky will always be known as the name of Rocky Balboa, the movie Rocky who is the face of ‘Rocky’.
The Marciano family may sit at the table with their grandchildren talking about Rocky’s record, and how great he was. Once the 49-0 record falls, though, what do they then have to talk about? What they should have talked about. Marciano was in reality a great heavyweight, and, discounting the number 49, which the some in the Marciano family are still obsessed with, a great heavyweight is how Marciano should always be remembered.
Rocky Marciano is one of the greatest heavyweights of all-time. He won 49 straight fights. if we call it by the numbers by being the boxer, he won 49 straight fights. Marciano’s best fights were against limited fighters, and an old Joe Louis. They also made two versions of the Marciano-Ali computer fight: one which had Marciano winning in the United States; and another which had Ali winning in Europe. Marciano would never have beaten Ali in his prime, though he believed he would have. Still, Marciano was a better technical fighter than Mike Tyson and George Foreman. Perhaps, as Ali stated, it is hard to speculate.
Rocky versus Floyd Patterson would have been a good fight in 1956. It is a fight Marciano could have taken and won before retiring. Patterson was not a heavy hitter. Marciano would just have walked up on Patterson and fought straight ahead. Patterson had good movement in his prime and could have given Rocky some trouble before Rocky knocked him out. Smokin’ Joe Frazier had not just power, but great movement. Frazier would have been a great challenge for Rocky. Patterson, Sonny Liston, and Frazier were not tall looking fighters, but they had better movement than Rocky. Boxing was going through phases when Foreman and Ali emerged to dominate the sport.
The Cassius Clay version of Ali would have jab targeted Rocky’s low stance walking straight in. Larry Holmes and Gerry Cooney would have been beautiful fights for Rocky. Holmes jabbed too well from the outside and would have forced Rocky into a do or die get inside or him fight-Tyson found a way against Holmes, perhaps so could Rocky. Cooney hit hard as hell, but lacked Rocky’s heart. Stylewise Marciano would have decapitated Michael Spinks. Rocky would have knocked out Ingemar Johansson early, and Hasim Rahman and Mike Weaver late.
Considering how George Foreman versus Ron Lyle turned out, it is likely an offensive slugfest between Foreman and Marciano would not have lasted long, one way or the other. Overall it is really hard to compare an unbeaten fighter of one era to the fighters of another era. I never liked the end of Marciano’s computer fight with Ali in the European version which Ali won. Marciano would never have been stopped on his feet like the film claimed in a real fight. Nor do I think Ali would have been stopped as easily as Marciano felt he could accomplish in a real fight. I would have gone for a Win 15 in the computer fight between Ali and Marciano, one way or the other. It seems more prudent an older Rocky would not have been able to chase a younger Ali for all 15 rounds, and would have had to settle for the scorecards. Lennox Lewis? Rocky would have argued Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman found his chin, and if he fought Lewis he could find the same chin.
Rocky Marciano and Floyd Mayweather Jr. are two different fighters in two different weight classes in two different eras. Rocky is not a heavyweight by today’s standards. Rocky was good, but he was not fighting good fighters. Rocky had a manager, Al Weill, who was stealing all of his money. Rocky could no longer fight with a clear mind, in which case he could not fight at all. Rocky just came forward head first. By today’s standards, you cannot fight like that or you’ll get eaten alive. Rocky had the power of a monster, and knew how to get inside to use it to his advantage in his time. Boxing power still has value.
Today’s fighter is not the same as yesterday’s fighter. It would have been difficult for Marciano and trainers Charlie Goldman and Allie Columbo to make adjustments by today’s standards. Look at how Marciano fought, and look at how Mike Tyson fought. Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko fight from the outside with magnificent jab technique to the head and body, and seemingly would never have let Marciano get inside. However, Marciano would argue Corrie Sanders got inside on Wladimir, Lennox Lewis got inside on Vitali, and Buster Douglas and Danny Williams knocked Tyson out. Rocky probably would have taken apart fighters like George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry, Ron Lyle and Tommy Morrison. So, given the facts, Marciano theoretically still had a fair chance to win against the heavyweights that followed if he fought the right style fight. Styles make fights. Marciano and Mayweather’s fighting styles are as different as the sun is to the moon.
The common denominator which brings Rocky Marciano and Floyd Mayweather Jr. together is the undisputed fact both men lived their lives as superior clean athletes. Neither man was involved with Human Growth Hormones (HGH) or steroids. It is a fine testament to Floyd he has refused to go abroad to fight foreign fighters who are for the most part cheating by using HGH and steroids for performance enhancement. Floyd will only fight Manny Pacquiao over here for that reason, the true reason Floyd versus Manny has not yet taken place. Floyd wants Manny tested up the wazoo no matter where the fight takes place, to enforce the concept fights cannot cheat to achieve.
Rocky and Floyd will be remembered, in the least, as hard working athletes who fought their professional boxing careers cleanly. The late football player Lyle Alzado, powerful enough to have fought a 10 round exhibition with Ali, and later damaged from steroid use, spoke out against the steroid use which would eventually kill him use over 20 years ago.
Rocky Marciano would have criticized the professional sports establishment much stronger than Floyd has in advocating drug free sports and entertainment. From boxing to wrestling, from baseball to football, from basketball to cycling, systematic drug testing must become the accepted standard.
As Floyd must set the highest standards of professional pro boxing can offer today in terms of achievement and understanding of the sport, Floyd now carries the additional burden of having to speak against steroid use as the best known personality in boxing today. Rocky fought London’sDon Cockell in San Francisco in 1956.Like Floyd, Rocky never fought outside the mainland United States. I doubt today whether Rocky’s noteworthy elite trainers Charlie Goldman and Allie Columbo would have gone to Europe with Rocky to defend his world heavyweight title under the present steroid cloud of controversy. I don’t blame Floyd for not going abroad to fight either. It isn’t a trustworthy situation from Floyd’s viewpoint, and Rocky, if alive, would stand by Floyd and second the motion.
A consortium of investors from Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates which includes ex-Don King boxing executive Akbar Muhammad has offered Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Mayweather Promotions 120 million American dollars to fight Manny Pacquiao in Abu Dhabi in the first half of 2015. It is the biggest offer of a sports purse in history, and unlikely to be surpassed. Jack Dempsey or Marciano never had a shot at money like that.
What anti-doping protections would Floyd need to have to place in the United Arab Emirates, or anywhere for that matter, before accepting a bout with Pacquiao, or will the offer of obscene money override any and all HGH and steroid considerations? That is the question. Only Floyd knows his next moves for sure. The world, including Rocky Marciano’s ghost, will be watching. Rocky represented integrity. Will Floyd maintain his high standard of anti-doping integrity? The sport demands it, but financial considerations could overtake ethical considerations. The ball is in Floyd’s court. Thusfar Floyd has never fought outside of the mainland United States. Since April 2006, Floyd’s last nine professional bouts have been in Las Vegas, where ‘money’ rules.
When Rocky Marciano fought Archie Moore on television, there were 32 million television sets to convey the magic of sports. Today, Floyd has the advantage of considerably more screens which can carry Pay-Per-View. As to whether or not the legacy of Rocky and Floyd has them both overrated, perhaps a remark by the late chess champion Bobby Fischer says it best. Fischer did not regard himself as the best chess player ever,as some called him. Rather, Bobby Fischer simply regarded himself as the most talented chess player of his time.
The 120 million dollar question has not to do with the money Floyd might earn in 2015 for fighting Manny Pacquiao in Abu Dhabi. The 120 million dollar question is: how do we define Rocky Marciano and Floyd Mayweather Jr. in the same light? Other sports writers have gone into the numerous negative habits of both. I won’t. The 120 million dollar answer is: Rocky Marciano and Floyd Mayweather Jr., it can be argued, were the most talented boxers of their respective generations. Rocky Marciano and Floyd, therefore, should only be remembered in that way in the court of professional boxing history by boxing historians, in the era of the Marquess of Queensbury rules.
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